tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post1016997871550698103..comments2023-09-29T06:57:06.991-07:00Comments on Anglachel's Journal: Blowback AheadAnglachelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01110546252851760414noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-13131347117813289252008-04-28T20:46:00.000-07:002008-04-28T20:46:00.000-07:00The Obama campaign has turned itself into a one-no...<I>The Obama campaign has turned itself into a one-note wonder - If you don't vote for me, you are a stupid white racist. No more Hope and Change. No more Unity Ponies for everyone.</I><BR/><BR/>His whole campaign is playing the race card. Exploiting white guilt then blaming non Obama voters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-85714843718932368072008-04-27T16:33:00.000-07:002008-04-27T16:33:00.000-07:00Can yall feel it? The tide is indeed turning. We'r...Can yall feel it? The tide is indeed turning. We're starting to talk about who her running-mate will/should be. Our hearts have always said "yes", and now our minds are starting to see how she could pull it off.<BR/><BR/>She's gonna do it!!!Chinaberry Turtlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08917878302338229102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-1032477487368259772008-04-27T15:10:00.000-07:002008-04-27T15:10:00.000-07:00BTW, regards the gay canary int he coal mine of th...BTW, regards the gay canary int he coal mine of the creative class:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://blog.pennlive.com/pennsyltucky/2008/04/chelsea_clinton_hits_the_gay_b.html" REL="nofollow">Chelsea's gay bar crawl</A><BR/><BR/>I adore this, although I seriously hope that the ass-grab comment was a joke.<BR/><BR/>It also makes me adore Rendell even more that he's been campaigning in these areas of my old home city for as long as he has. This is what respecting the voters and building a REAL coalition looks like.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-52736935296614182832008-04-27T14:53:00.000-07:002008-04-27T14:53:00.000-07:00Clinton/Clark 2008Clinton/Clark 2008Shainzonahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18219260005354359058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-39511675679137827062008-04-27T14:42:00.000-07:002008-04-27T14:42:00.000-07:00Mea culpa, Namo -- on using only Far East examples...Mea culpa, Namo -- on using only Far East examples for "Asian." I recall being mildly bemused when I was in the UK a while back upon learning that when they use the term "Asian," they generally refer to South Asian. I had to do a bit of mental recalibration on the term while there.<BR/><BR/>I also remember someone asking me, "Well, if Asian means East Asian in the US, then what do you use for people from India and Pakistan?"<BR/><BR/>My reply was, "Um, Indian and Pakistani."<BR/><BR/>Asia == very big place.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure about the H1B bitterness; I have <I>no doubt whatsoever</I> that it's around, and I've been laid off because of it. But I was very definitely angry at the management mostly because they were a bunch of incompetent dolts, and there are so many south Asians in my area (southern California) that it's hard to muster up any serious xenophobia. :-) They're just neighbors. It seems that way anyhow. When you hear Chris and Anand at work going on about playing Rock Band with Nihar and Brian enough times, you just stop registering who's from where.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-41177147403752030932008-04-27T14:22:00.000-07:002008-04-27T14:22:00.000-07:00The party will be paying for years.The sad thing i...<I>The party will be paying for years.</I><BR/><BR/>The sad thing is that it will not just be the party that pays, but the country and, because of the way Republicans love to throw our power around, the world.<BR/><BR/>Anglachel & all, thanks for a thought-provoking post and discussion as always. I hope it will all turn out as turtle says, to be in some way positive and healing.<BR/><BR/>For me the things that stand out are the feeling of being threatened, as Stormny says, either because I'm thwarting the young or thwarting the AAs by voting for Clinton.<BR/><BR/>It's not as though threats of riots plays to stereotype at all, is it?<BR/><BR/>But, though I don't see anything to do with my vote if Obama becomes the Democratic nominee, some part of me just viscerally objects to giving in to bullying.<BR/><BR/>I feel the same way about what Escoffier termed the Obama followers' "visceral hatred of white southerners." I've seen the same thing in comment lines on some of the "progressive" blogs and as a white southerner what I sense is a whole lot of self-righteous self-congratulation and no desire whatsoever to understand what actually might be going on with me.<BR/><BR/>Alas, however, I've said all this here before.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for listening, guys.Sherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08295623007228772234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-61108663818853910542008-04-27T14:07:00.000-07:002008-04-27T14:07:00.000-07:00I've heard people say Clinton/Bayh is likely. I d...I've heard people say Clinton/Bayh is likely. I don't know enough about Evan Bayh to like or dislike him. He's pulling for our girl, so that's a sentimental point in his favor -- but I need to know more about the guy before I settle how I feel about him.<BR/><BR/>I don't think we'll see a mix-n-match ticket on either side, but for different reasons. Clinton would not want to be seen as trivializing it; she'd simply steamroller ahead appointing as many nonwhite leaders in her administration as her husband did, which was quite a lot. I think she'd see choosing a black man as a pander and would recoil against pandering on something that has been so historically important to her.<BR/><BR/>Obama OTOH would not give a crap either way about women, and so it wouldn't even occur to him that maybe he should <I>consider</I> pandering before dismissing it.<BR/><BR/>The man's utter refusal to deliver the goods for ANYONE is creepy that way. He doesn't give a shit for people whose votes he has to work for because they're all screwed up for not voting for him in the first place.<BR/><BR/>OTOH, he doesn't deliver the goods for people like AAs who are turning out for him in record numbers because he figures he doesn't have to; he's got their votes sewn up already, why waste effort on them?<BR/><BR/>He seems to be happy to rationalize brushing people off from both sides.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-85260845965293674882008-04-27T14:03:00.000-07:002008-04-27T14:03:00.000-07:00But what can the black community do?The main mecha...But what can the black community do?<BR/><BR/>The main mechanism of power -- the black church -- has turned its back on civil rights concerning women and gays, it has gotten into bed with the GOP for mere crumbs of spoils, and this is the last chance it has to show itself as still influential, through the delivery of votes for a single candidate.<BR/><BR/>We're not hearing about any other black downticket candidates, are we?<BR/><BR/>We're not hearing about strengthening the Congressional Black Caucus. In fact, they're eating the last of their seed corn by attacking the Clintons who gave them the most power they ever had as a group. <BR/><BR/>We're not hearing about any other community initiative that could benefit the black community, tagged to benefit from the projected record turnout this fall.<BR/><BR/>This is a one-off, and a sad one, at that. With Jesse Jackson, local benefits did trickle down. Not one peep of addressing issues relevant to communities on the general election ballot.cgeyehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16760705749940311464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-57878269479939690982008-04-27T14:00:00.000-07:002008-04-27T14:00:00.000-07:00turtle: while I appreciate what you're trying to a...turtle: while I appreciate what you're trying to accomplish, PLEASE NO, not Harold Ford.<BR/><BR/>Aside from that, however, don't Obama and HRC look like they're pandering if they would try and choose a woman or a black, repspectively, as VP?Shainzonahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18219260005354359058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-17477810154821546162008-04-27T13:37:00.000-07:002008-04-27T13:37:00.000-07:00This whole primary has been hugely positive. Reall...This whole primary has been hugely positive. Really. It has exposed deep fissures in the Democratic party, fissures which desperately needed to be addressed:<BR/><BR/>(1) For a long time, the Democratic party has taken blacks for granted, and resentment has built up;<BR/><BR/>(2) For a long time, the Democratic party has taken women for granted, and resentment has built up;<BR/><BR/>(3) For a long time, poor working class whites have been asked to make sacrifices for the sake of others in the Democratic big tent, and patience is now wearing thin;<BR/><BR/>And now it's all bubbling up and the party is having to talk about its dirty laundry. This is good.<BR/><BR/>I really do think there is a path to salvation in this whole thing - a path which addresses all the concerns of all three groups above. I'm not sure how it will shake out, but I really do think Harold Ford is going to play a big role in this. <BR/><BR/>A Clinton/Ford ticket could really sell. And he'd have eight years to perfect his game, so that when he finally runs for prez, he won't make all these amateur hour mistakes that Obama is constantly making.Chinaberry Turtlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08917878302338229102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-79980101700619074402008-04-27T12:39:00.000-07:002008-04-27T12:39:00.000-07:00orionATL, wow. It does seem so clumsy and poorly ...orionATL, wow. It does seem so clumsy and poorly thought out that you're right. It does look as if someone came in from the outside and figured it'd be a good thing to exploit.<BR/><BR/>What makes me really sad about this is that I'm seeing, as an outsider granted, the black community spending every cent of political capital they have on someone who doesn't merit it. I don't want to think of the damage that will do to a community that's in too bad a situation to tolerate damage. Not because they stood up for a black candidate -- because they stood up for a bad candidate.<BR/><BR/>Of all the talented, motivated black people in the community that have given their hearts and souls for their community, that have sweat blood for the black community ... <I>this poser</I> is the one that gets settled on <I>by the white power elite</I> as The Black Candidate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-90495740719599635772008-04-27T11:53:00.000-07:002008-04-27T11:53:00.000-07:00orionatl....Your comment is perfect! Exactly what...orionatl....Your comment is perfect! Exactly what I think has happened and is happening.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for expressing it so well.Shainzonahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18219260005354359058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-50812990101770661172008-04-27T11:23:00.000-07:002008-04-27T11:23:00.000-07:00what really has baffled me about the obama campaig...what really has baffled me about the obama campaign's use of race,<BR/><BR/> e.g., hillary tears in new h. vs lack of Katrina "tears" as noted by jesse jackson, jr. the morning after the new hamp primary and on the cusp of the south carolina primary,<BR/><BR/>is that this campaign seems not to understand that race in america can cut badly both ways - as devastatingly on the backswing as on the strike.<BR/><BR/>i'm beginning to wonder if the obama campaign really DOES NOT HAVE A FEEL FOR RACE IN AMERICA.<BR/><BR/>it is as if obama, and his mastiffs, axelrod and plouffe, came for some other country, looked around a bit at america culture and decided that race would be a good foundation for a political campaign.<BR/><BR/>and it HAS been a good foundation for obama.<BR/><BR/>it gave him his large early lead in delegates. i would love to know whether or not the excess of black votes for obama in the old "deep south" (south carolina, georgia, alabama, mississippi, and louisianna, and toss in d.c.) was responsible for most, if not all, of obama's current plurality of delegates (~150).<BR/><BR/>but now the obama campaign doesn't seem to know where else to go for votes.<BR/><BR/>was their strategy simply to yell race loud enough and long enough at the beginning of the primary season to gain an overwhelming advantage for obama in delegate numbers,<BR/><BR/>with the expectation that, with good fortune, one or two big states would have fallen their way by now?<BR/><BR/>at present the obama team does not seem to have a plan for how to close the deal with a transition from race to the transcendent glories of transcendent politics.<BR/><BR/>i'm beginning to suspect that obama's entire strategy was to win early - full stop.<BR/><BR/>but clinton, whether she understood their game or not, would not quit.<BR/><BR/>now the media has begun to shift ever so slightly against obama.<BR/><BR/>the important big states are compromised for obama.<BR/><BR/>at present obama's hopes seem to lie with north carolina blacks<BR/><BR/>and with howard dean and a cadre of democratic superdelgates for whom conflict avoidance, not choosing the best person for the job of president, is a central value.orionATLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18052116776071979616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-32629670598003942462008-04-27T10:44:00.000-07:002008-04-27T10:44:00.000-07:00thank for the insight Namo. Your comments were ver...thank for the insight Namo. Your comments were very informative.Chinaberry Turtlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08917878302338229102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-63508145622020258952008-04-27T10:04:00.000-07:002008-04-27T10:04:00.000-07:00It's also important to remember where the term "cr...It's also important to remember where the term "creative class" came from. Richard Florida was looking at cities that had done well lately economically. He ran into a fellow named Gary Gates who was looking into cities that had become havens for the LGBT population. They looked at one another's numbers and determined that they matched up perfectly. Cities that had large LGBT populations also tended to do well economically.<BR/><BR/>The basic premise, and I think there's merit to it, is that cities that are seen as welcoming to people of all kinds who are "outside of the box" tend to have more than they share of innovative inventor types as well.<BR/><BR/>Put plainly, gay people and lesbians are the canary in the coal mine for the creative class.<BR/><BR/>And ask yourself: which candidate are the queers coming out in droves for?<BR/><BR/>You got it.<BR/><BR/>The single most significant creative class indicator that Florida and Gates came up with <I>is heavily tilted for Clinton</I>. You can throw that in the face of ANY Obama supporter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-83023372417277808282008-04-27T09:57:00.000-07:002008-04-27T09:57:00.000-07:00stormny, the ageism is part of the old spin about ...stormny, the ageism is part of the old spin about how unfair social insurance programs are to young people. It has been a Republican/business/feudalism talking point since the 1930's. It is the spin of the U of Chicago/ free trade/disaster capitalists to abolish the social safety net and shock the US economy into abandoning SS/pensions/Medicare. Older voters do not buy into the arguments of the Obama talking heads, but youngsters are being told old and middle aged people are greedy and are going to impoverish them. They are in the process of blaming the economic problems of the nation on the older generation instead of the capitalist class. This one of the reasons the uber rich are so fanatical about O and why the young are so terrified. It is economics.BBKEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16204064529233763932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-58731649845845241822008-04-27T09:55:00.000-07:002008-04-27T09:55:00.000-07:00stormny, I don't think they are really Youth or Cr...stormny, I don't think they are really Youth or Creative Class as much as we are constantly told they are.<BR/><BR/>I AM actually creative class, according to any definition. I do online and traditional publicity for a <I>fabulous</I> little company -- graphics, programming, writing, presenting, strategic campaign-making, the whole lot.<BR/><BR/>And I know who these kids are who are calling themselves "creative class." I brought it up once before, and China nailed it. They can program in perl and Java, they get a programming position that's one step up from clerical data entry, and they pat themselves on he back for being part of the New Economy.<BR/><BR/>They are self-identifying as "creative class" (a moniker I'm not sure means anything because there is little more creative than being confronted with a malfunctioning car and having to figure out what the hells wrong with it; that's what I call REAL systems-level debugging) <I>because</I> they are voting for Obama. They aren't voting for Obama because they are creative class.<BR/><BR/>I'm also seeing rather a lot of older farts (I'm 42, I'm starting t obe able to use that term without apology) voting for Obama because, as a commenter on TM said, it makes them feel young, hip, and liberal. They're voting for Obama in lieu of buying a red sportscar.<BR/><BR/>I just don't know how much of this stuff is accurate. His supporters probably are not a coherent "base" of any kind that can withstand politics in the long term. Old rich people and data entry clerks? Black people and frat boys? Ain't gonna last.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-83533499646212955912008-04-27T09:13:00.000-07:002008-04-27T09:13:00.000-07:00Wasn't this the BO game plan all along, perhaps ha...Wasn't this the BO game plan all along, perhaps hatched with the DNC power players to nominate anyone but Hillary?<BR/><BR/>His campaign introduced and he and the media have reiterated the race card.<BR/><BR/>Intentional, since it would remove nearly the entire black vote from HRC and set up the blackmail threat that Donna Brazil and others have introduced?<BR/><BR/>Their out would be that threat of riots would frighten many voters but their payback would be that they could blame HRC for dividing the party when it is obvious that the dividing is/was done by the BO campaign.gendergappershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607028861861443195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-42397672294100714492008-04-27T08:54:00.000-07:002008-04-27T08:54:00.000-07:00In an experiment I read about (and can’t find agai...In an experiment I read about (and can’t find again) it was indicated that racism is not as intractable as it seems. Dealing with pictures of different genders, ages, and races of people dressed in various colors, the experimental result was that people were more tuned into “the team” as opposed to inherent recognition of races. This was a hopeful message. The article quoted the scientists that for millions of years humans were so sparse that they never saw another race, so there was genetic reason to hard-wire race recognition into our brains. What we DO know is who is on my team and who is with the Others. As an aside, they mentioned that age and gender were more genetically built-in. <BR/><BR/>Having lived in Southeast Asia for several years, I learned that the Chinese call the people of the South China Seas the “black Asians.” South Asians had castes long before colonial times, with the whitest ones on top. But I think that all of these are manifestations of “Teamism.” As with the IT people, race is just an easy way to define the Others. <BR/><BR/>I would like to see this blog explore another topic: the ageism of this primary battle. The message I have received for months is that us old women need to die, basically. I have felt the hatred not just towards women but towards all older people who need to “make way, take one for the team, just go away and give us bright lights a chance to fix things”. This morning, Donna Brazille and the boyz spent a long time explaining how the new young voters are going to turn away from politics and just give up if BO is not the nominee. OK, another threat. But what sort of resilience do the Youth have if they cannot understand that in a democracy, you can lose. <BR/><BR/>I would like to examine exactly who the Youth are. Are they of some monolithic class or, as I imagine, more the college-educated? What’s the evidence of the poor working or non-working kids from the small towns, inner cities, and farms coming out in droves for BO? Anyone got any evidence of “Privates in the Army for BO”? I could very well be wrong, but aren’t these Youth just another subset of the Elite?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-28123400478360564872008-04-27T07:52:00.000-07:002008-04-27T07:52:00.000-07:00The Obama campaign began the politics of race, reg...The Obama campaign began the politics of race, region and class before NH. It was apparent to some as early as last summer that those they were training in Camp Obama were being indoctrinated in the 1960's version of racial and class politics. There were very young acolytes that were paternalistic and condescending in their views of anyone outside of their circle.<BR/><BR/>They have a visceral hatred of the white South and current history has no part in their narrative. Since becoming aware of a relationship between Obama and William Ayers I have attempted to learn what I could about his current involvements and leanings. Mr. Ayers is still the old violent 1960's radical and there are strands of his venom throughout language and tactics of the Obama campaign. <BR/><BR/>These old and new radicals have co-opted much of the party elite by playing to their vanity. The old liberal elite of the party hated the Clintons because they always lost to them. The radicals hate them because they are moderates and will not buy into their doctrine.This may be the final battle of the 60's.BBKEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16204064529233763932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-11183217474797637002008-04-27T07:06:00.000-07:002008-04-27T07:06:00.000-07:00I have often wondered why some people are so in aw...I have often wondered why some people are so in awe of Obama's message of "change" - because I never was. Anglachel hits the nail on the head for me when she says...<BR/><BR/>"They did not want what he was offering because they did not see themselves as the ones who needed to be changed..." <BR/><BR/>While, I, for one know that there are a lot of things that I (personally) should change, when it came to this election I thought the only thing that needed to be changed was the Bush White House - and fast.<BR/><BR/>Now I realize that Obama's campaign has always been focused on the wrong enemy...the Democratic Party.<BR/>And in the process, he has done so much harm that our chance to change the real enemy may very well be lost. <BR/><BR/>Unbelievable. <BR/><BR/>How did we arrive at this point in time?Shainzonahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18219260005354359058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-29606734759277485202008-04-27T06:48:00.000-07:002008-04-27T06:48:00.000-07:00And we've wondered what Barack Obama absorbed from...And we've wondered what Barack Obama absorbed from 20 years sitting in a pew listening to Rev. Wright?<BR/><BR/>Isn't Wright's message one of black versus whitey? <BR/><BR/>Now I know what part of Wright's sermons Obama "took away".Shainzonahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18219260005354359058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-33538043203105086832008-04-27T05:54:00.000-07:002008-04-27T05:54:00.000-07:00Cathy: You're right to remind us that there are so...Cathy: You're right to remind us that there are some large differences between different Asian groups. This started out by me suggesting that Asian meant more than East Asian and even Southeast Asian. <BR/><BR/>So one of the large differences is in attitudes towards intermarriage. I see a lot more East Asian/white pairings, for one thing, than South Asian/white.Námo Mandoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876501353961485728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-66290155456924983582008-04-27T05:43:00.000-07:002008-04-27T05:43:00.000-07:00'pologies for posting this with no time to read wh...'pologies for posting this with no time to read what's above:<BR/><BR/>April 26, 2008 (LPAC)--In a recent speech in Indiana, Senator Clinton challenged Barack Obama to a one-on-one debate on the issues facing the nation, and while there have been many debates in the campaign thus far, this challenge is unique.<BR/><BR/>Simultaneously with her challenge in speech form, the campaign released the guidelines, for a two minute by two minute back and forth, to last for 90 minutes, uninterrupted. This format would allow for a real debate over policy, something the voters recently responded to in the Pennsylvania Primary by voting for Clinton, as she has been spelling out the more concrete economic solutions for the crisis. It is also a very good challenge coming from Clinton, in that the obamanables cannot gripe, as they have, that the debate format is 'biased.'<BR/><BR/>(copied in toto)Gary McGowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03329080938000561329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4119943.post-51378979304998477352008-04-27T05:27:00.000-07:002008-04-27T05:27:00.000-07:00Great illustrative cartoon -Shows Obama girl takin...Great illustrative cartoon -<BR/><BR/>Shows Obama girl taking movies of herself on one side and Hillary Women on the other - at a voting booth.<BR/><BR/>The BO girl is skinny with shortened coverings of vital parts while the HRC women are different ages, shapes, sizes and dress; one with a child, one in a walker, one with bills falling out of purse.<BR/><BR/>Cartoon by what appears to bge sigmc??? - couldn't google it but date is 4/25/08. Perhaps one of you knows if I got the letters in name right - I have trouble with the word verification part of posting.gendergappershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607028861861443195noreply@blogger.com