Thursday, October 23, 2008

So, who are you?

Alegre and Red Queen have recent posts up about the basic fact that rape is a problem with men. It is something you men evidently enjoy doing and don't really want to see stop happening, though perhaps you'd prefer it not happen to your current female, unless you're the one doing it.

While one man can inflict violence on a number of women, it's not the case that there is a small secret club of guys responsible for the bulk of sexual and other attacks on women. The extreme cases make the papers, like the Austrian who imprisoned his own daughter for most of her life so he could rape her as he pleased or the Pennsylvania man who murdered the Amish schoolgirls he had taken hostage apparently to rape them, but the mundane, ho-hum, rape-em and go stories rarely get brought to the attention of local law officials let alone the media.

If every 6th woman you meet is statistically likely to have been sexually assaulted, then doesn't that also indicate that, say, every 7th or 8th man you meet is statistically likely to have committed a sexual assault?

I know many women who have been attacked. They tell me stories of what happened, when, who did this.

Do you men really not not know who among you is a rapist? Note that if you have forced yourself on someone who did not want sexual contact with you, you are a rapist. Just once is enough to earn you that lable. Did your wife or lover or friend ever tell you about the person who attacked her? Have you ever heard another man say he had assaulted a woman? Did you ever offer sympathy to a raped woman and then go on and rape yourself, either her or someone else?

Most women know the person who assaults them. Nearly 3/4 of sexual assaults are by done by someone known to the victim. That means you men are getting thrills by attacking women you know and who have some kind of trust in you. My opinion is if you hear a man saying something misogynistic, you are probably listening to a rapist, a person dehumanizing women so they are simply prey.

The fault lies with you men, even those of you who don't (or have not yet) rape, which is failing to go after the men who do. It's a male behavior, structured around male concepts of what is excusable, and is entirely up to men to eliminate.

Red Queen:
The only people who can stop rape are men because men are the rapists.

Dude thinks that everyone needs to work to change it, that women need to work just as much as men do to stop rape.

Except, we aren't the rapists. And we have been working on preventing rape since forever. And I for one am tired of tailoring my behavior out of fear that some rapist will see me coming like a bright shiny beacon of potential cum dumpster status.
Alegre:
Let's put the blame for this violence where it belongs... squarely at the feet of the men who attack and kill women. When are folks going to stop blaming women for the actions of others? When will our leaders wake the hell up and understand that it's the responsibility of men to stop attacking and killing. That it's the responsibility of other men to stand up to those thugs, speak out against this violence, and say ENOUGH! when it comes to those who attack their sisters, mothers, daughters and wives?
We can't get away from you. You're half the species and you have colonized every inch of human space, claiming it as your property that we women occupy at your pleasure.

So, I'd like to hear from the guys about the men they know who are rapists. Or what you have done personally to get some rapist arrested. Or how you stand up against male peer pressure to make a point that rape isn't acceptable to you.

Silence is complicity.

Anglachel

28 comments:

Palomino said...

I have pointed out to progressive (cough) men that a rape is a lynching. These men have readily allowed that rape (of males) is often one horrifying component of a lynching, but invariably they have minimized the absolute equivalence between rape and lynching. Some have even informed me that rape of one's wife is impossible, a contradiction in terms.

It is telling that our legal system is, or pretends to be, incapable of distinguishing between rape and consensual sexual contact. But that is to be expected when a biological function (sexual reproduction) has been perverted into an oppressive institution (heterosexist intercourse) and then naturalized (by contrast to whatever sexual reproduction between and among humans might be in a purely natural context).

BillyWitchDoctor said...

(quote) The fault lies with you men, even those of you who don't (or have not yet) rape (end quote)

Wow. After all the intelligent articles I've read here, this...this is just so astoundingly idiotic, I think I'll have to ask you to get the hell out of my bookmarks.

Shainzona said...

Bye, Billy.

daily democrat said...

Hi Billywitchdoctor, if you are still reading at this point, I would be grateful if you would specify exactly what you think is "astoundingly idiotic" in Anglachel's post?

And I wonder if you have asked yourself why, after getting to know Anglachel through all the brilliant articles she has written about politics in general, why you suddenly feel personally affronted when she asks you (in a demanding, challenging tone of voice, certainly!) to declare your solidarity with women by joining them against the violent crime of rape?

Námo Mandos said...

This is (predictably) going to descend into a "My Brother's Keeper" argument.

scott said...

I don't have a problem with what she said. This idea that it's (rightly) gasp-inducing to say racist stuff but somehow ok to say locker-room, wink-wink-nudge-nudge stuff about how no means yes, and to turn a blind eye to the people who either rape or to dismiss rape as trivial, is fucked up. Not sure why it's idiotic to say that.

Becki Jayne said...

Anglachel must have hit a nerve about the size of Mars.

How many men teach other men, don't you ever, ever, ever force yourself on an unwilling female? How many men and how often do they educate men and boys that no always means no? What are men doing to stop the sexual violence against women? Are they telling each other that pressuring women to submit to their demands isn't appropriate behavior? Or is this issue -- because it affects mostly women -- therefore women's work?

The answer to the last question is NO according to Men Against Sexual Violence, an org out of PA: ...the number of sexual assaults has not declined. A new strategy must be utilized in order to address the issue of sexual violence.... Therefore it is necessary that we as males of all ages recognize that we need to take part in the struggle to end sexual violence.

From the "What Is Sexual Violence" page, they say: Sexual violence violates a person’s trust and feeling of safety. It occurs anytime a person is forced, coerced, and/or manipulated into unwanted sexual activity. The continuum of sexual violence includes rape, incest, child sexual assault, ritual abuse, date and acquaintance rape, statutory rape, marital or partner rape, sexual exploitation, sexual contact, sexual harassment, exposure, and voyeurism.

And they also list 10 things that men can do leading with: 1. Regard your own actions and behaviors honestly and objectively.... American culture often inundates young males with values that appreciate and propagate male dominance, rather than love, respect, and the worth of human feelings. As males, we should be made aware of this, as well as the ultimate consequences of our own role in perpetuating these ideas, and should attempt to monitor our actions accordingly. If we can consciously remain aware of ourselves and our interactions with others we can be better able to make adjustments that allow us to interact with women in more positive and supportive ways.

More of this, please!

Thanks for putting the onus where it belongs, brave Anglachel. With props to Alegre and Red Queen.

Kurt said...

I do sense a bit of rancor here, but rightly so. I'm a male who grew up fatherless and raised by 5 intelligent women. I speak out against misogyny at work amongst friends etc. Luckily I know I no one who has ever or yet raped a women and I I did I would do all I could to get justice served, and yes I believe that even when a women says yes yes yes, then at the last minute says no, that's her decision and is still rape if the man continues. I felt a little offended when you lumped all men to be responsible but I can understand, but then again I was raped by a next door neighbor as a child. so I do have a deep seated resentment against men and try to only associate with men who love, cherish and respect women. I don't know if I made my point , but thanks for letting me comment.

Anglachel please keep up the good work! and thanks for everything

Ann said...

There is an excellent book on rape by Sharon Block called _Rape and Sexual Power in Early America_ (2006), now available in paper. Block argues that rape and coerced sex were difficult for the Anglo-American legal system to prosecute because of the notion of consent discussed above. Normative ideas about men's and women's gender roles and prescribed sexual behaviors included the notion that men were expected to use some degree of coercion or even force to get women to consent to sex, so early Americans saw varying degrees of coercion or force as normative and therefore not prosecutable as rape. Some women were more believeable as rape victims--elite, free, white, and married women moreso than plebian or enslaved women. (In fact, enslaved women didn't own their bodies or have the right to their own sexuality, so they were probably the most frequent victims of rape, and at the same time women who could never seek redress in court for their sufferings. Block also illustrates the degree to which white domestic servants were vulnerable too.) Block also notes that some men (elite, white, and free) were in a position to manufacture the appearance of consent when an ambiguous encounter became public, whereas other men (poor or enslaved) did not have the authority, prestige, wealth, (and frequently, command of the victim's body and labor) to convince others retrospectively that an encounter was consensual.

While Block's book focuses on the eighteenth century and the early U.S. Republic, her discussion of class, race, and consent are disturbingly relevant to the way that rape is prosecuted (or not) today. One thing is very constant, I'm afraid, and that is the fact that men's version of events is privileged above women's reports of the crimes against them. The justice system still leaves it up to rape victims to prove there was a crime. Women aren't considered trustworthy as reporters of their own rape, as though women don't know it when it happens to them. Whereas the perpetrator's version of events is more often than not privileged (I didn't rape her, it was consensual sex!)

Historiann.com

Mike J. said...

I have never raped anyone, nor have I ever murdered anyone. I have known women who were sexually assaulted in a variety of ways (incl. my wife), but have yet to meet someone who, to my knowledge, is a rapist.

Having said that, I have known several men who, had they been accused of rape, I would have been inclined not to believe their please of innocence. Their attitude toward women (and minorities--misogyny and racism do seem to go hand in hand) was such that I would not put it past them to rape.

My first reaction was to take a bit of offense at this post (I mean, what have I done?), but now that I have thought it over, the point is well taken. There does exist a society-wide norm, almost, that under certain circumstances rape might be excusable. This, I think, it closely tied to the double standard applied to sexual promiscuity or restraint. A sexually promiscuous woman is seen as, well, asking for it. A sexually restrained women, on the other hand, is depriving men of sexual gratification. Thus rape in essence amounts to men taking what is their right due. Because a man having sex--well, what's there to criticize? Sex is what men have, after all, and they have it at their own time and place, and with the female of their own choosing. Women, on the other hand, are not permitted (in terms of societal norms, not written law) the same level of sexual autonomy. And that in a liberal, democratic, secular country like the United States. One only wonders how bad things must be in other parts of the world.

I don't know how to transform these ruminations into a policy agenda, but it seems we men (as a group) simply do not regard women as our equals. This may be a motivated bias due to economic competition in a declining economy. I suspect the fact that inequality has been growing for the last several decades is not coincidental to the anti-feminist "backlash". Education and self-awareness are important and have their place, but fundamentally speaking we need to address these underlying social and economic problems that polarize us, lead us to seek out weaker groups to victimize.

Hattie said...

What a terrific post, and what illuminating comments. I may disagree with some of what I find here, but this is just outstanding.

Námo Mandos said...

So in answer to your question, in real life I generally steer clear of talking about people's sex lives, and consequently I can quite honestly say that even if I know someone who is a rapist, I wouldn't know that they were. I generally don't spend a lot of time in the spaces in which that kind of talk goes on, you know, and my personal and cultural background has primed me to largely remain ignorant (South Asians are horrendous prudes, for whom babies grow on trees).

I do know women in real life who have been victims of DV and possibly rape (the latter is an educated guess), but I don't know the perpretators personally.

Online, I know people in both groups (likely perpetrators and victims), but usually via pseudonyms.

But in general, it's really easy to remain oblivious. Is it *responsible* to remain oblivious? That's another question.

Koshem Bos said...

When a group, e.g. women, claim abuse, discrimination, being ignore, the group typically is justified. When the post raises the rape as a commonly occurring violation that women suffer from, my experience doesn't trump the post.

My experience, I know no rapist and am not aware of women that where raped, does raise a major issue for me. What should my role be vis a vis rape? There is no one I can oppose, no one to help. Joining a social fight against against rape and rapist makes little sense for me because my sensitivity to the issue is limitrd by my experience.

Palomino said...

A few more points, somewhat random but germane:

1. Men who are not rapists, and who are not, to their knowledge, acquainted with rapists, still benefit from rape, which is a terrorist tactic used to support the strategy of making all women subservient to any and all men. By the same token, all women are disadvantaged by rape. Just think about your wife, girlfriend, daughter, women friends, etc., who hesitate, even in broad daylight, to walk alone through areas to which you never give a second thought. And I don't mean just certain urban neighborhoods. I also mean public parks, hiking paths, and the like--places theoretically open to everyone but in practice, and in fact, only truly open to men perceived as strong enough to fend off attack. Every woman or girl raped is made an "example" to every other woman and girl.

2. The fact the men, too, are raped does nothing to diminish the character of rape as a crime of violence and humiliation, one that uses sexual contact as its instrument. Men who are raped tend to underreport the crime, to a greater extent than women do, probably because rape stigmatizes a man as "feminized," thus reinforcing the principal purpose of rape as a terrorist tactic aimed at the sujugation of all women to any and all men.

3. A man who has been raped is in no doubt about what has been done to him, but a woman may find herself questioning her own experience and wondering whether she somehow "asked for" or "provoked" the crime. Needless to say, she would have plenty of support for that viewpoint from quite a few interested parties who were not at the scene.

4. When a woman has been raped, news accounts speak of "her rape" and of "her rapist" rather than reporting on "the rape" and on "the man" (or, not uncommonly, "the men") "who raped her" or simply on "the rapist(s)." Thus the woman, in addition to having been violated by the rape itself, is violated anew by this unwanted, linguistically based proximity to (and curious responsibility for) the criminal who committed this act against her.

5. Even some of the "progressive" men I've talked with who can concede, theoretically, that rape = lynching still balk at this equivalence. According to them, lynching has a public element in that it's generally a crime committed by more than one person, in a somewhat open manner (notwithstanding disguises like white hoods and robes), and in a way that is meant to be noticed. My answer to these "progressives" is to ask them to consider all the films, TV shows, video games, billboards, pornographic media, etc., that depict figurative and literal rape of women as a way both to degrade and violate the humanity of women and to teach women what they can expect if they step out of line. This is usually the point where a First Amendment arguments will be raised. I am myself a First Amendment fundamentalist, which actually frees me from having to argue my case on these grounds.

OK. 'Nuff said for now. Thanks, Anglachel.

Pol C said...

My opinion is if you hear a man saying something misogynistic, you are probably listening to a rapist, a person dehumanizing women so they are simply prey.

My experience is that most misogynist mouthing off about sexual exploits comes from either lotharios who get off on their ability to manipulate women, or their wannabes. The latter includes a large number of intellectually-inclined men, who are generally giving vent to their anger over not being attractive to women. I honestly haven't had to listen to much of it in my personal life since my early twenties, as I've always found the lothario types to be repulsive on any number of levels, and the wannabes don't tend to behave that way outside their presence. One quits going to large parties, and one generally quits hearing things that make one cringe. Most of my friends are women, anyway, and that type of crap doesn't tend to get voiced around them--at least not at get-togethers and whatnot.

I think a lot of garbage that erupted online in response to Clinton and Palin is either suppressed hostility from the once and current lothario wannabes, or from brats who were getting their kicks saying verboten things. Of course, there are the unbalanced types with mommy issues, too.

In defense of the lothario-types I've known, I've never heard of one who forced himself on someone, probably because they don't get off on brutalizing women. The only assaults I've been aware of where I knew the people were date-rape situations where alcohol was involved. The guys were otherwise pretty decent sorts who didn't realize that booze and sex don't mix very well, and everyone paid a pretty horrible price for that lesson.

A.Citizen said...

I am totally against rape and rapists. I try and speak out against the underlying attitudes and prejudices which many men express and which provide the foundation for rape as an anti-social act. In many circles, black....Obamaist....Reneckian...FratLand...Cheetoville
this makes me very unpopular. Not a problem for me as you will see further on being 'popular' or 'with it' or 'on the right side of the issue...' means nothing to me.

That said, I would point out that men do not have 'rapist' tattooed on their forehead. Nor do the ones who know me regale me with tales of how the assaulted some mutual acquaintance who happens to be female. No man has ever addmited to me that he was/is a rapist. Thus, I take no personal responsibility for any OTHER man's rape of a woman. I'd cheerfully, given real proof, blow blow a rapist's brains out but I will not accept his label.

I am not a rapist.

I will not be so characterized. Please check your meds. This is a very poorly written piece which does nothing to advance that which you are attempting to assert and with which I agree.

Male culture is skewed towards brutalization of and the dehumanization of women.

If you'd done some research on WHY that is and written a post about that and what men and women can do to push back...

That would have been better.

Julie said...

I know someone who knows someone who was raped. He thinks. I think he talked to me about it because I said "huh?" once to something ambigious he said and I think he needed to vent. The woman, after they became girlfriend/boyfriend, told him something that happened earlier. From her description he thinks she was raped (and he wanted to pursue it) but he's frustrated because she didn't seem to view it that way. The "maybe" rapist was a bigshot in the social group she was in, and she didn't want to bring outsiders into the situation. But she was apparently ambivilant enough about it after the fact (years after the fact?) that her current boyfriend thinks she was raped. I haven't heard her side of the matter, ... but it sure sounds suspicious. And I don't know why she wouldn't name it rape. She probably thinks she "went along", and doesn't want to think of herself as a victim -- but it sure sounds like male entitlement behavior to me, that she got pushed into giving sex.

Which would be consistent with a culture where men benefit from rape -- it was social OK in the above situation for a guy who wanted sex to push matters till he got what he wanted, and the gal's feelings didn't matter.

fulton490 said...

I'm sorry, but I am not going to read beyond "It is something you men evidently enjoy doing and don't really want to see stop happening...."
Bullshit.

hysperia said...

Wow. Illuminating. Some men think they don't know any rapists. Almost impossible, given the data. And obviously, many men become agressive, hostile and defensive when it is suggested that it's up to them to stop rape whether they are rapists or not. Hey Namo Mandos, to say that you don't know rapists or women who've been raped because you don't inquire into peoples' sex lives is actually ignorant and insulting. Ignorant because, in all likelihood, you DO know some rapists and most certainly you know some women who've been sexually assaulted. Ignorant AND insulting because this is not information you would glean by asking people about their "sex lives", since rape and sexual assault aren't about sex, if sex is defined as consensual sex, which, for me, it MUST be.

A. Citizen, Anglachel is off her meds? That's not only an insult to the writer but also, to all of us who take meds. If a woman has strong views that don't coincide with yours, she must be "crazy"? How convenient. It doesn't surprise me that you take no personal responsibility for rape. Precisely the problem that Anglachel identified. I am a white woman. I take personal responsibility for racism. Poverty. And yes, even sexism. Ableism. Ageism. And much more. What's your problem?

Thanks Anglachel. This post is written with your usual intelligence and passion. I wish there were more male commenters who were honest and self-aware - I came to comments hoping to find them and, with a few exceptions, they're missing.

alterwords said...

In Canada the statistics are that one in four women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. This includes all sexual assaults and isn't limited to rape and attempted rape. For disabled women, the rate of sexual assault rises to 83%. I can't find similar data for the US but it hardly makes sense that it would be much different. This makes it even MORE likely that men who aren't perpetrators know men who are predators, and women who have been sexually assaulted.

I truly would love to hear what men think they ought to do about this and not women telling them what to do. Possibly if men thought about this, they would learn enough to facilitate meaningful action.

Koshem Bos said...

Without reducing the importance and pertinence of the post, I want to express my disagreement with many of the comments to thee post. Many of them sound like the forced confessions of innocent prisoners in authoritarian regimes. Many post agree that men are rapists.

Even in Nazi Germany not everyone was a Nazi. Not every German benefited from the Nazi regime. The stampede to indict every man as a rapist should, using the same logic, be followed by indicting everyone as war criminal, torturer, thief.

alterwords said...

Many Germans who were not Nazis DID benefit from the Nazi regime. They were rewarded economically, with jobs, and were more secure than Jews as long as they weren't actually Jewish. That's just for instance. If the Nazis had "won" the war, all Germans except Jews, whether they were members of the Nazi Party or not, would have benefitted and that includes people who were anti-Nazi. Why is this so hard to get? If you are a member of a privileged category, you are privileged as an individual member of that category, even if you don't like or appreciate the way you are privileged. I'd very very much like to divest myself of my race privilege. Not possible, as long as I live in a racialized society. Even worse, a racialized person can't shed his/her status either. In all likelihood, it takes people from both categories working in concert at the systemic level to begin to hack away at the problem.

I think women have to do anti-violence work too. IMHO, we're fucking tired of doing it alone.

I'll try to keep my thoughts to myself now lest I take up all your space and blow a gasket Anglachel.

bonneyanne said...

Some observations:

I realized in college the dynamic behind date rape – the men would want me to accept any situation that put me at their mercy, and if I protested, they would indignantly accuse me of being paranoid and insulting, because I was accusing them of being a rapist. Then if a man did become violent, the reaction of everyone, including the police, was “Why did you place yourself in any man’s power?”, thus implying that it was women’s responsibility to treat all men as rapists until proven otherwise. Knowing this let kept me from being at all defensive about insisting on my own security, because no man I knew could resolve these contradictions.

I shared a house with some philosophy majors. One night I heard odd noises from downstairs and went, with my football playing friend, to check on it. A man I didn’t know was holding the door of one of the housemate’s rooms shut; he said everything was okay. A few minutes later, my friend and I heard a scream and a young woman without clothes ran into our room, at the same time we heard the outside door slam. We couldn’t catch the rapist, we drove the 16 year old girl, who had only accepted a ride home from a high school party, to her house. We offered to be witnesses but she, quite understandably, wouldn’t press charges. That was that girl’s first experience with sexual intercourse. When I told the philosophy major what his friend had done, he said “Yeah, xxx has some weird ideas” and let it go at that.

Years later, a white male progressive was holding forth on racism and which person would scare someone when approaching them, a white or black man. I said “Both of them” and pointed out that this was at a campus with an asymptotically high rape rate compared to the surrounding community; it was so bad women had taken to renting dogs so they could run the lovely trails around campus. It was the first time that man had ever considered the idea; to his credit, he did try to include it in his lectures.

And I’ve wondered since first hearing the high school maxim “The boys won’t respect you if you do what they ask” what the respect of anyone who would ask someone to degrade themselves is worth.

Sexual intercourse is one of the most delightful, hedonistic, holy, transcendent experience a human being can have. It is also the means by which the most ubiquitous oppression among human beings is delivered. Thank you for your unapologetic recognition of the facts, Anglachel.

Námo Mandos said...

Hey Namo Mandos, to say that you don't know rapists or women who've been raped because you don't inquire into peoples' sex lives is actually ignorant and insulting. Ignorant because, in all likelihood, you DO know some rapists and most certainly you know some women who've been sexually assaulted. Ignorant AND insulting because this is not information you would glean by asking people about their "sex lives", since rape and sexual assault aren't about sex, if sex is defined as consensual sex, which, for me, it MUST be.

This doesn't make any sense. A rapist of the sort that Anglachel is talking about definitely thinks of rape as a variety of sex (as it fits in prevailing cultural modes of sexuality). If I were to inquire about sex, I would expect a with a certain probability that such a rapist would describe an act of rape.

See, I didn't say that I don't know any rapists. I don't doubt that there is a high probability that I have met rapists, given the statistics, I just don't know which ones.

Please read more carefully.

dr molly said...

Thought-provoking post as usual, Anglachel. I'm sorry to say that, for most men, they won't be able to hear it.

I'm always surprised that men don't get this. If you ask men or women whether white people bear a responsibility to speak out and stop racism, they will reply 'of course'. If you ask men whether they bear a responsibility to stop rape and violence against women, they are usually silent, or they assert that it is up to women because only women can understand the experience. Ridiculous. If white people can recognize racism when they see or hear it, then men can recognize sexism.

Just the other day, I saw a commenter at Talk Left refer to Sarah Palin as a 'piece of ass'. At that 'liberal/progressive' site, no one objected to this language used against a woman. I've given up policing these things on left blogs, because it is inevitable only the women who speak up, and they are usually ridiculed when they do so for being oversensitive.

In my academic job, I long ago realized that educated, liberal men are just as bad about being silent and accepting (or participating in) trash talk and misogynistic comments about women as right-wing men are. There is simply no difference between left and right where men and sexism is concerned. The primaries only drove that point home for me.

I despair at the conclusion, but the only rational conclusion I can reach is that men don't care.

draeinoregon said...

I have discussed this issue with my son many times; he has just turned 18. He is a very compassionate and respectful young man. Imagine my surprise when my son made an offhand comment to me that I was "different" because I hate men.
I was so shocked I couldn't reply other than the obvious denial, which is never really heard. I've heard this from other men, but from my son, never. There seems to be a very narrow line between being "allowed" to discuss this topic: the responsibility of all men in their silent participation; and being heard as against them. I do not understand this.
When we share our experiences and our thoughts, we are asking for help and shining a light, not labeling, or whatever it is that men seem to take offense to. I do not hate men, how could I? I DO hate what some men CAN do and the silence and excuses of some others. Every woman knows that clutch in the belly, the fear that they may have put themselves in a potentially bad situation simply walking to their car or through a too-quiet park.

I thank you for this article and I will share it with my son in the hope that he will see that he can not write off my words and experience with such a simple label. I ask that then men who read this try to do the same.

Thank you

prowlerzee said...

If a woman has strong views that don't coincide with yours, she must be "crazy"? How convenient.
=================

Yeah, I get that all the time.

I've also had male friends who were furious because I consider all men potential rapists and cross the road to avoid any at night.

But one of my most misogynistic male friends considers rape torture and thinks they ought to face the death penalty. I think it's a high-falutin' stand so he can continue in his ways without being tarred by comparison.

Alex said...

first in response to those who say they do not know any rape victims. If you know 30 woman chances are 20 of them have bin sexually abused. However they are not likely to tell you. If you wish to know treat everyone you know with respect and be open about your self ask peoples opinions on rape but phrase the question to give them the space to give there real opinion not what they believe to be acceptable.

Not just the number of women I know who have bin abused in some way but how and by who is horrifying. And that just the ones who have told me.

However I believe your statement (If every 6th woman you meet is statistically likely to have been sexually assaulted, then doesn't that also indicate that, say, every 7th or 8th man you meet is statistically likely to have committed a sexual assault?) is inaccurate and inflammatory.

But hey I could be wrong.