Tuesday, June 10, 2008

Plus Ca Change

Jeralyn has a post up about Obama promising to make religious outreach a priority in his administration. The comment thread is long and has a bit of atheist ranting, but there are a good number of interesting and cogent comments. This Kmiec guy is very troubling.

The Precious really has a thing for extremist religious types who don't care much for liberal democratic government is all I can say.

Anglachel

22 comments:

The Red Queen said...

I think that's how he's planning on replacing the working class, latin@s and women that he's purged from the party.

cellocat said...

Boy, oh boy. I have feared Obama's religiosity for a long time, and it is part of the reason why I never could support him. He uses his religious faith as a reason to act in particular ways within the political sphere, and that, I believe, is a fundamental part of what is wrong with America.

Any time you have a belief set with a rule book and provisions that if you follow the rules you're good and that if you don't you're bad, you automatically set up a situation of heirarchy and exclusion.

Oh, if only people had known about this from the beginning; the signs were there, but ignored. And now it's becoming overt, too late.

Bo Gardiner said...

Atheist and church-state separation rants, feminist rants, gay rants, Jewish rants... they're all good.

They all need to be heard by the Democratic party. We share the common purpose of reminding the party of its Big Tent ideals.

The secularists' comments at TalkLeft, admittedly mine included, should not be dismissed as atheist rants, IMHO. To do so veers a bit close to right-wing framing for my comfort.

Obama and the party need to recognize just how long and growing is the list of us "low-information" voter blocs who are having trouble "getting it."

A.Citizen said...

It's my opinion that as Obama reveals just who he is and what he's for, something that is pretty inevitable now as we run up to the GE, that quite a few people are going to get one big, ugly surprise.

The more we see of Obama the more he reminds me of Bush. And, no, I'm not being sarcastic, nor am I kidding....

....nor am I alone.

Atticus said...

Am I missing something? Or has the Dem party been taken over by the Republicans?

What concerns me is the inevitable influence on policy exerted by religious factions. After 8 years of Bush's cozy fireside chats with the Almighty, isn't it time America pulled back from this intermingling of politics with religion? America doesn't need more religion in political life, it needs less.

I'm just astonished that this proposal is coming from the Dems, and even more so that the progressive left seems incapable of recognizing something so threatening to progressive values.

AnecdotalValue said...

Unbelievable. Dennis K submits articles of impeachment and Obama and followers don't listen. Hillary supporters are angry and Obama/followers don't care. But disaffected evangalists? yes, let's pay attention to them!

Chinaberry Turtle said...

The following website is, I think, very informative:

obamamessiah.blogspot.com

I have no doubt that the website is likely the product of Republicans who wish to cast Obama in a bad light. That being said, the website does compile an extremely long list of quotes from Obama himself, as well as his loyal supporters and the media, which clearly illustrate the bizarre religious undertones of his campaign.

No, I'm not promoting any sort of anti-Muslim sentiment. Frankly, I'm afraid of *ANY* religious extremism, be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. I think the above website provides a good set of data from which the reader can judge whether or not Obama is a dangerous religious extremist.

For what it's worth, here's my favorite quote from the above website:

"I'll do whatever he says to do. I'll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear." - Halle Berry

As much mad love as I have for Hillary, she can be troubled to pick up her own paper cups.

My Name Is Earl said...

I read the article and did not recognize any of the names referenced.

I wonder how these *leaders* are on LGBT issues? Or will that be a group that can be thrown under the bus now? After all, Obama didn't want his pic taken with Gavin Newsome...

campskunk said...

maybe donnie mcclurkin can apply for a grant to run a faith-based operation "curing" homosexuality. we used to be able to go after these clowns using state licensing laws limiting the practice of psychology, but now they're hiding under the umbrella of these faith-based organizations george bush is pushing, and they're exempt as "pastoral counseling". they're still screwing up the heads (and occasionally the bodies, but that's another story) of the teenage kids whose fundie parents send them off to get "cured" of teh gay.

the suicide rate for gay teens is already high enough, but just wait until they go through one of these programs, which destroy their self-esteem, and tell them they're going to hell for being who they are. it turns them into suicide timebombs. it's criminal - or it used to be, before they developed this faith-based loophole. now they get away with it.

makana44 said...

This whole thing is giving me the willies. Has anyone else been recipient of the new rash of emails now running around the Internet claiming that Obama is truly - not metaphorically – truly, the second coming:

Ginny McCallum, 43, who has been confined to a wheelchair for much of her adult life, came to hear presidential candidate Barack Obama speak at the University of Texas. Afterward she found herself in a wheelchair access breezeway as Obama and his entourage exited the arena. The candidate spotted her, came over, grabbed her hand and pulled her up. She found herself standing for the first time in eleven years.
"He smiled at me and said, ‘Yes, you can,’" she says. "I was so stunned I didn’t know what to do."
McCallum is among hundreds of people who say they have been healed by the Democratic candidate, in one of the most surprising and little-acknowledged aspects of his campaign. Reporters have shied away from the story, chalking it up to "Obama-mania" and people’s feelings of elation.
"We don’t talk about it a lot, but yeah, it does happen," says one staffer who says he has seen multiple people healed on a rope line. "We don’t know exactly how or why it’s happening, and the Senator won’t talk about it. He usually insists that people keep it quiet and just report it to their pastor or priest."
(it goes on and on, too).

I'm thinking maybe this is why his health plan leaves out so many millions of people...he'll just go around touching them instead, and save the government lots of money.

Or, how about this one:

* (name withheld) asked about reports that Barack Obama has healed people through touch. What is the truth of this?*
You know Mr. Obama as a Presidential candidate, but he is an elevated soul who has been sent here to unwind the decadent society which is embroiled in a struggle between the light and the dark. This soul is rather new to the circling experiences of this planet. He has come from another planet and has little experience on the Earth plane. *He was sent here to be one who would change the evolution of the political scene*. We see the possibility of being elected as President,
whereby he will be supported by those from his home planet who will work very diligently to bring forth the equal playing field of peace and prosperity for the world view of equality.
(This email goes on and on, too…)

Just wondering - does anyone know if this is the first time the Daley machine has backed an ET? What about the DNC? Wouldn't it be ironic if all this time the abuse she received wasn't really because Hillary was a woman, but because she was an earthling?

It also makes me wonder where the real Josh Marshall ended up (my heart goes out to him), and explains the sudden appearances of aliens like the orange blob and the arihufferthing. It also may explain Bush and Cheney, too. There is no way that they’re human.

So the GE is now a race between a sub-human and a post-human. Humans (who win the popular vote and every important state, and who represent the will of middle class working whites, Latinos and women…and Democrats) need not apply. And only people who have no resume (or are complete losers) get to be leader of the free world.

sister of ye said...

I have found Obama's emphasis on faith throughout his campaign troubling. I find the pseudo-religious imagery of his website and other materials creepy. I say that as someone who was very religiously active in the past, going so far as taking classes at the local seminary.

The president has no business being involved in faith matters. None. Nada. Zilch. His job is to competently administer the machinery of government, with an eye to the common welfare that requires ethics, but not a religious affiliation. A secular sense of common decency adequately meets that requirement.

We don't elect a preacher-in-chief or babysitter-in-chief to oversee our private habits and morals. If the president is concerned with riding herd on any people, it should be those fictive corporate entities that have gained undue influence over our government and society.

Just as I want the government to keep its hands off my body, I want it to keep it's nose out of my faith.

iam0nly1 said...

Thank you for your amazing work.

It has come to my attention that Howard Dean is trying to take Hillary's name off of the ballot at the Convention.

http://donedems.com/2008/06/11/dean-wants-clinton-off-convention-ballot-for-unity/

Please spread this around if you can. We have to fight this. We can't let this go unchallenged.

Shainzona said...

I confess to having been wandering the the wilderness (I thought I would throw in a little biblical reference), but this comments from bo gardiner brought me up short:

"Atheist and church-state separation rants, feminist rants, gay rants, Jewish rants... they're all good."

It focused me back on the fact that so many good and dependable Democrats have something to rant about with a BO nomination. This is wrong. The Democratic Party always represents us...what is going on and why aren't sane, rational people rising up in arms?

I am truly perplexed.

Frenchdoc said...

Shainzona,
why aren't they rising up in arms? Because they've been bullied and abused by the Obama Fan Base, either in real life or online.

I know you post at TL and RD, you've seen what happened all through the primary.

It's a sad reality but Obamanation is a cult.

Shainzona said...

Frenchdoc....and my heart is breaking.

Truly. It makes me want to cry - for my Party...but more importantly, for my country.

show me said...

Obama is such a shape shifter. I truly have no inkling of his core.

I wouldn't be bothered as much if his outreach included: Buddist, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish etc. This over emphasis on the Christian faith by all politicians is very worrisome. We don't need a state religion.

One of the beauties of our country has always been the multiplicity of faiths living peacefully together.

Frenchdoc said...

Shainzona,

it is heartbreaking, but, look, several formerly pro-Hill blogs have already thrown in the towel and joined the unity shtick (cuz there's the SCOTUS to think about, dontcha know).

The few remaining pro-Hill blogs are being savagely attacked (Riverdaughter).

And now, Obama will reveal progressively the big pandering phony that he is, except that he won't pander to us, the good ol' dems (and forget about secular folks).

The only real tools left are $$ and votes. Or, if we can get it together, Progressive Blogosphere 2.0 which we absolutely need to create.

To Lambert's question as to why we should join the unity shtick "and we get??", the answer is zilch, nothing, nada... what we get are threats and bullying. We're expected to just join and be happy that we're accepted back into the fold.

Sorry, not me.

A.Citizen said...

A quick survey of 'the threads' at many well known blogs, of all persuasions, shows a good deal of 'consternation' about Barkey's 'priorities'.

And a lot of, 'Where have you been living..' and a certain amount of '....what's that I smell on your breath...OMG...Kool-Aide...Mom!....'

I really am beginning to think that Barkey is either dumb enough or arrogant enough to think he is the nominee already.

I mean....

Doug Kmiec! Damn, that's some in our face Federalist, Fascist, ReThug.....

Bullshit!

I wonder what Kos and Bowers are thinking now?

Heh....too late now Boyz.

'Chris stop throwing up in the toilet..Stop that right this instant!....'

lakelobos said...

Tried to comment early this morning but something went wrong. So, now after fulfilling my duties as host, granddad (me the racist have a multiracial grandson), teacher, and spouse, I am back.

Kmiec represents the dark middle ages. As my tradition says: "tell me who your friends are and I'll tell who you are." Kmiec tells us who Obama is. God help us.

In Ieralyn's list I haven't seen an Imam or a Rabbi; If there were none, then Obama is not only a racist but also a religious fanatic. God help us.

I am not against talking with the Iranian or Cizik ("I am a Reagan Reublican"), but I am for also talking to, via Riverdaughter, Sino-Peruvian lesbians, blue collar workers, Hispanics, Chinese and Indians that not called Jindal.

Obama is like a Pandora's box, the more you look the worse it gets.

FlipYrWhig said...

I don't know where I first read the comparison, so I can't give proper credit, but it really does feel like Obama's campaign has a megachurch vibe to it. It's charismatic, nondenominational... there's no doctrine... and it's all about growth.

And it seems to be geared towards making people feel special. Because, like, they're the people they already are, which God loves them for.

DancesWithPumas said...

"Mega-pastor TD Jakes and pro-life Catholic constitutional law professor Doug Kmiec...Rich Cizik with the conservative National Association of Evangelicals, best selling Christian author Max Lucado, Luis Cortes, Paul Corts, Cameron Strang, Bishop Phillip Cousin, Rev Stephen Thurston, Glenn Palmberg"

All males.

Chinaberry Turtle said...

ooops, my link in my first comment was messed up. Here is the correct link in case yall are interested:


obamamessiah.blogspot.com