Thursday, March 27, 2008

No to Republicans, Too

First, thank you to the many people who have commented recently. I enjoy reading your stories and thoughts. For those who are new to the blog, please be aware that I almost never respond directly to anything in comments. To a few questions about linking or quoting:
  • Link away. Try to use the permanent link if directing readers to a specific post.
  • Quote in context and provide a link back

You don't have to agree with me, but use a link so your readers can make up their own minds.

Topic of the day - friends don't let friends vote Republican.

The Republicans are leading the charge against progressive politics, wanting to reduce this nation to late 19th-century conditions. They are clearly supporting Obama in the primaries to try to take out Hillary, as anyone who has been paying attention well knows. It tickles me pink that we are beginning to see rank and file Republican defections to Hillary in the primaries as, unlike the Dem for a Day crapola (and there is a post brewing on that topic), these appear to be good old Rockafeller Republicans, fiscal conservatives but socially liberal. A rare breed, these days, and clearly people we want to bringinto the Democratic fold.

There is no reason for any thinking citizen to vote for this band of thugs and criminals. NONE. Hillary herself tells you do not vote Republican. Ever.

The difficulty here is that Obama has run a shitty, nasty, fuck-the-bitch-over campaign, actively trading in elite pundit hatred (It's not just for wingnuts anymore!) and demonization of the Clintons to curry favor with the MSM. His delegate count overrepresents his actual support, particularly as his less than illustrious Chicago connections are exposed to the light of day. He has treated Hillary and the majority of Democratic voters who support her as beneath contmept, impediments to be swept away, rather than valid opposition deserving of respect. For crying out loud, the guy ran oppo research on Paul Krugman.

So, what's a good loyal Dem to do?

First and foremost, I do not give up, anymore than Hillary does. She can win this because no one has done so yet. The longer the campaign goes on, the more likely it is that she can pull it out. I talk about polls, perspectives, and political legitimacy to make clear to prospective voters what is at stake in this primary contest and to keep past voters engaged. If it can influence a super delegate or two, all to the good.

Second, should the nomination go to Obama through anything less than full representation of all the states and clear voting (hint - not under death threats) by the super delegates, you can cast a protest vote in November by writing in HRC. Some states do not have the ability to do this on touch screen machines, so be sure to talk to your country registrar of voters NOW and figure out how it can be done.

Finally, if Obama can clean up his sewer of a campaign, apologize for and retract all accusations of racism against the Clintons, fire every person from his campaign who has spoken derogatorily of Hillary and her supporters, unequivocally state that he will whole-heartedly support Hillary should she be the nominee, adopt a clear Democratic platform, present himself for full and fair primary revotes in FL and MI, win a clear majority of Democratic voters, and participate honorably in a clean convention, then I will do as Hillary asks and vote for the Democratic nominee. In short, Obama has to be no less dedicated and honorable a Democrat than Hillary herself if he wants to earn my vote.

Under no circumstances will I cast a vote for John McCain or any other Republican. Period.

So, Dr. Dean, how much of a game of chicken do you want to play with the general election? You need my vote. Earn it.



Anonymous said...

LOL. That third scenario is not going to happen and you know it Anglachel. So what you are saying is that we should all write in Hillary if she doesn't win the nomination which I will certainly do :) It will make me feel better that I didn't have to compromise my values and beliefs to vote for the lesser of two evils (at this point I really don't know if that would be Obama or McCain).
In fact, I am so dedicated to making a statement to the DNC I am willing to campaign and help spread the word through a website to get people to write in Hillary if Obama is the nominee. I would love to see the MSM and the DNC discover that Obama lost the election because thousands decided to write in Hillary instead of give their vote to him. That would be amazing.
But hopefully none of this will have to happen if Hillary pulls through and wins the nomination!

Anonymous said...

Great blog Anglachel. Agree if Obama is to win this nomination he should do it by winning cleanly, something he has so far failed to do. That means accepting the MI/FL delegations as voted on in the primaries, and then winning the majority of SD's by showing he is the stronger GE candidate. My guess is he won't do it. He'll use the media which is in the tank for him, and continue his less than subtle negative campaigning against Hill. The effort suppresses the votes for Hillary in caucauses and primaries. If he can't shove her out, he'll do it by suggesting she can't win by the "math" (guess what: neither can he but the press never says that) and thereby suppressing Clinton voters in caucauses and upcoming primaries.

What a dirty way to "win." I'll have to think hard about whether to vote for him in the GE. I will definitely vote Dem downticket.

Chinaberry Turtle said...

I agree w/ cutepeachpand - Obama will NEVER do what Anglachel described as necessary to turn this thing around.

There's no way I'm voting Republican either. I will be voting for Hillary in November no matter what. Even if Hillary implores me to vote for the Hope-Pope, not gonna happen. As Janis over at Riverdaughter explains, this is bigger than even Hillary. If someone calls my sister a C---, nothing my sister says can keep me from kicking the guy's ass. Obama's going down.

Here's one conundrum I've wondered about though. What if Hillary were in the VP slot w/ Obama at the top of the ticket? What would yall do?

Man - that would be a tough decision for me. But if my gal could hold her nose enough to be VP to that scumbag, then I guess that's about the only thing that could ever get me to vote for him.

Anonymous said...

chinaberry turtle: I think the DNC will push for a unity ticket because it seems like the only way they are going to stop a good number of Clinton supporters from voting for McCain.
I hope Clinton doesn't accept the VP slot. I don't think it would be enough for me to vote for Obama. I mentioned this over at Riverdaughter's site but I do not want Clinton to become Obama and the DNC's bitch to use and abuse. Clinton is a hardworker and we all know she is going to work her chomps off to accomplish more as VP than Obama will as president. I just think it's wrong if Clinton takes the #2 slot when she's going to be the one giving Obama on the job training while he takes credit for all of her good ideas and accomplishments. I'm sick of women having to settle for second in command. I personally will not vote for Obama if Clinton is forced into being his VP. I will still write in Hillary for the presidency because she deserves it more than Obama right now.

Chinaberry Turtle said...

Hey cutepeachpanda,

I feel you on this:

"I do not want Clinton to become Obama and the DNC's bitch to use and abuse."

But I trust my gal would NEVER let herself be Obama's b***h. So, if in the end, she went into the VP slot, I would have to think that she had something up her sleeve. Because, as we all know, Sir Hopeness will lose in the general election w/o HRC. She could just bide her time and run again in 2012. So, if she went into the VP slot, she must know what she's doing.

Of course, if Mr. "Why Can't That B***H Just Give Me What I Want" would be smart, realize he'll lose the GE, and take the VP slot now, we could start getting unified.

Hey, the Hope-Pope just LOVES not having a record to drag him down. What better place than VP for eight years? You don't have to vote for squat. He's good at that!

Percy said...

I can not follow that advise. I love Hillary. Yet I am also ANTI OBAMA and that sentiment has nothing to do with my support of Hillary. I do not want nor trust Obama near our White House....and that is outside out of all his character flaws and lack of integrity. He doesn't deserve to be our President, not today not ever. Of course I do not want a Republican again, yet I will do what ever I can to make sure Obama is not in our White House, and my vote against him to the closest competitor is the best bet for me.

The DNC and Democratic Party need to get clear on its values and this entire election process and primary. I will not remain a democrat if they do not quickly resolve the FL and MI issues.

I will not passively sit by and do a sit out or do a write in. I know Hillary is saying no one should vote Republican... yet I will if Obama is on the ticket at all.

If the ticket is Hillary and Obama in that order, I vote for McCain.

I encourage others to keep Obama out of the White House.

The Democratic Party might need another 4 year time out.

Chinaberry Turtle said...

Percy: "I do not want nor trust Obama near our White House"

I'm curious, what got you to feel this way?

I sometimes perform a mental experiment and subtract out all the horrible misogyny (the A#1 I-HATE-OBAMA factor for me) from this campaign. What would I think about Obama then?

As Anglachel described in another post, there are two big constituencies behind HRC. One of them consists of lunch-pale "beer" Democrats who are very patriotic and have mega-love for America. I'm definitely in that group.

So, when I see all of the following put together: (1) no flag-pin on his chest, (2) doesn't have his hand over his heart during the national anthem, (3) his wife is proud of her country for the first time in her adult life, and (4) his pastor of 20 years says "God Damn America" - that does not sit well with me AT ALL. Any one of those by themselves, ok - i can ignore it. But put it all together and I just can't get past it.

I HATE when liberal whiny trust-fund baby college kid liberals talk about America "deserving" 9/11 for our foreign policy sins. And all of those 4 indicators I mentioned above remind me EXACTLY of those spoiled rich liberal Starbucks punks who've never worked a sweaty day of work in their lives.

Is that where you're coming from? Or somewhere else?

Another Kind of Feminist said...

*Note: I am cutepeachpanda, formerly known as ccp. For some reason my OpenID isn't working and won't allow me to post so I'm using my google account for now :P

percy: I totally understand your sentiments and for the first time in my life I honestly cannot be angry at any Democrat who would rather vote for McCain over Obama. I personally never thought I would have to vote for a Republican so I feel better about writing in Hillary. But if you gotta vote for McCain go right ahead and do it. I have friends who have said the same thing and I don't argue with them about it. I agree that I dislike Obama so much that I wouldn't be upset if Obama lost to McCain.

chinaberry turtle: I think HRC would settle for the VP slot even if she didn't really want to run with Obama. She's that loyal to the Democratic Party. If polls continue to show Clinton supporters moving over to McCain, I wouldn't be surprised if the "leaders" of our party will demand behind closed doors that HRC be Obama's VP or at the very least campaign for him like crazy up until the GE. It seriously sucks to be in her position right now. I just think that Obama and the DNC are very abusive to HRC and I don't see how HRC working under Obama will really change anything. I totally see them using her for their own advantage. I agree with Percy that not only have I become anti-Obama but I am also anti-Pelosi, anti-Dean, anti-Kerry, anti-Brazile. I want all of them out and if that means writing in HRC or voting for McCain then so be it. I have a lot of anger right now and I want to see their careers destroyed. I think a lot of Clinton supporters feel the same way which is why they'd rather vote for McCain in order to bring down the entire ship which includes Pelosi and Dean if Obama loses the general.

HKstar said...

Agree with you totally, Anglachel! I am so glad I found this blog. Come Nov if Hillary is not the nominee, I'll write her in. VP is not an option for me. She'll be training Obama and getting no credit for eight years.

SergeiRostov said...

Chinaberry Turtle:

For me, 4) plus:

- his concerted campaign to falsely portray the Clintons as racist;
- falsely claiming Hillary to be "divisive", "disingenous" "negative," etc. while being all thses things himself;
- his running as the "black candidate" when it's to his advantage, and as "post-racial" when it's not;
- "Democrat for a Day" i.e. encouraging Republicans and Independents to vote Dem (and for him) in the primaries just to beat Hillary, both playing off of Hillary-hatred and flasly inflating his support;
- In Iowa, deliberately turning out new voters for the Dem caucuses who would NOT vote Dem if Hillary was the nominee (via HuffPo);
- his false claim H. never said it was a mistake to vote for the AUMF;
- his lying about H.'s current position on the war;
- his blaming of the Bhutto assassination on Hillary;
- his praising of Bush in the process (as if, contrary to all evidence, that Bush putting more attention on Pakistan would have made it better);
- his lying about his own position on the war (esp. his saying in '04, "George Bush and I have pretty much the same view of the war at this point.");
- his praise of Reagan for his being "accountable" (never mind Iran-Contra, the mass murder in Cen. and S. America, etc);
- his claim that Medicare, Medicaid, and the Clean Air and Water Acts were examples of a "bloated" government;
- his saying it would be just fine to let the damaging Bush tax cuts expire on their own, rather than getting rid of them right away;
- his lying about H.'s positions on NAFTA;
- his lying about both his health care plan being universal and hers not;
- his taking watered down versions of H.'s policies and claiming them as his own;
- his essentially saying in print that law-enforcement should no longer be allowed to carry handguns, relegating them to either non-lethal weapons or highly-lethal ones such as shotguns, automatic weapons, etc (then claiming years later that a 'staffer' wrote that, not him);
- his taking the word of Matt Drudge over hers;
- his claiming credit for legislation never passed (US Sen), passed by others (US Sen), or 99% pushed by others (IL State Senate);
- his arrogance that an unremarkable 1/3 US Senate term qualifies him to be the best person to lead the free world;
- Rezko (esp. how that speaks to his arrogance and/or incomptence;
- his mob connections (Giannoulis (sp?));
- Auchi;
- Exelon;
- the vanishing of his IL State Senate records;
- his arrogance in thinking he would *automatically* get H.'s voters without having to ask;
- his demand that the first 18,000 people coming to see him with Oprah in SC sign loyalty oaths to the effect that they would vote for him in the fall (same type of thing Bush did in 2004);
- his use of phony right-wing talking points against Hillary;
- when asked about his lack of experience in one of the debates he replied:

"Cheney and Rumsfeld were experienced, and look where that got us."

In other words, every politician with experience is immoral, unethical, incompetent, and possibly even criminal.

(And in case you don't think he meant that, he tacitly agreed with John Edwards in and earlier debate that she was part of "a corrupt establishment," and further, Gary Hart - one of his prominent "switchover" supporters, said the same thing on HuffPo.)
- twice now he has said he would be the next President, an uncommon show of presumption and arrogance: the only candiate I am aware of who ever said this of themselves before the fact was one George W. Bush (Bush again!).
- in both NH *and* SC (just in case you thought it was something other than scripted), he said,
"While I am speaking, a light will shine down upon you, you will have an epiphany, and you will say to yourself, 'I'm voting for Barack'"

I asked my old Christian mom what her reaction to him saying that was, and she replied,

"He thinks he's God?"

While I wouldn't necessarily go that far, I would say that at the very least it means he thinks he's ordained by God to be President (just like Bush yet again...oof.)

There's more, I think, but that's enough for now....:)


SergeiRostov said...

On writing in Hillary if Obama gets the nomination:

I decided to do this a while back, but then I thought...

...I don't want to give the Obamaniacs even a quasi-solid reason to blame Hillary for his losing to McCain.

I thought about Gravel, but he's gone over to the Libertarian Party (side note: with all the entertaining nuts over there, he'll be in good company), ecch.

Now I'm thinking if that happens, I would write in...

...Al Gore.


Although I guess the Obamaniacs would then blame and hate HIM, too, despite the fact that they've spent the last 6 or 8 years praising him....

So, hmmm...

On the other hand:

- Hillary has proved she can take it

- It would be easy to prove Obama would have lost anyway

- Obama is proving he's not really a Democrat - by his tactics most of all - so it's not as if I would be in any true sense contributing to the loss of a Democrat... ok, I guess I'm back in. :)